Recently, Alibaba Group CEO Zhang Yong was invited to teach a class for Lakeside University. Facing the entrepreneurial students in the audience, Zhang Yong, who was the "teacher" for the first time, reviewed several critical moments he had experienced in the past 10 years of joining Alibaba, as well as some decisions related to Alibaba's fate, as well as the thoughts and struggles behind it. As the manager of an Internet company with a market value of over US$200 billion, he also shared his forward-looking thinking on the new Internet economy and Alibaba's unique organizational philosophy.
Zhang Yong said that Alibaba's business often "breaks and breaks": when the outside world couldn't understand it, it separated Alipay and Taobao; when Alibaba's mother was developing independently, it decided to "put Alibaba's mother back to Taobao's uterus"; later, Taobao was divided into three. In the Lakeside University class, he shared his understanding of these "breaking and reunion" for the first time.
In 2011, Taobao was split into three companies: Taobao, Taobao Mall (the predecessor of Tmall) and Yitao. Zhang Yong, who was in charge of Taobao Mall at the time, led the team through hard struggles and eventually "advanced into the Dabie Mountains for thousands of miles". Today, Tmall has become an absolute leader in the B2C field and has become the core competitiveness of Alibaba's e-commerce.
This experience made Zhang Yong firmly believe that the strategy is made, and the strategy that has been summarized has nothing to do with you. "There are many smart people in the world, and there are many hard-working people, and there are more smart and hard-working people. What does it have to do with you? It must be that there is no way in the world, so in order to survive, we will make a way out first."
Zhang Yong believes that strategy is difficult to be clearly planned. On strategic issues, the distance between the two points is always the longest, and the strategy often needs to be adjusted as soon as it progresses. This depends on persistence and persistence, and at the same time, the big trend must be correct.
In addition, strategies should be flexible. Zhang Yong used the examples of UC and DingTalk to joke, "I bought a chicken and hatched a duck. This kind of thing often happens in Alibaba." He said that when acquiring UCweb, Alibaba did not expect to create search and information flow, and he did not expect that because of the acquisition of UCweb and the acquisition of Gaode, Alibaba formed a basic service matrix in the wireless Internet era.
As the CEO of a company with a market value of more than 200 billion US dollars, Zhang Yong said that he would think more about things for five years, ten years or even longer. As the saying goes, there is no flower for a hundred days, and the product always has a cycle. Only when the entire layout is rotated can the entire company's business be prevented from falling into a collective trough.
Finally, Zhang Yong also talked about his views on organizational culture. He said that Alibaba is a fantastic company and a down-to-earth company; it is a company that serves as a middle school and uses Western learning. In terms of talent recruitment, Alibaba likes restless people within the system, rebels of multinational companies, and those who "can accomplish things".
It is reported that on February 25, Lakeside University will share the exciting content of Zhang Yong's class through the "Three Axes on Lakeside" audio open class.
Attached to Zhang Yonghupan University’s teaching sharing:
Teacher Ma has always said that today Hupan University is the hottest university in China. I have always yearned for it. Just like you, I will sit down below. They came to make an appointment a long time ago and asked me to communicate with you. I have never been a teacher. Unlike Teacher Ma, he has been a teacher from scratch, and I have never been a teacher.
All of them are entrepreneurs here. I think the reason why everyone is willing to spend a little time together every month or two is not to talk about things in the books, but to communicate with each other more physically and emotionally and their own scenarios, because everyone is running a company. No matter what industry the company is in or what life cycle it is in, many things behind it are connected, and the same is true for Alibaba.
I joined Alibaba in 2007. After 2007, what I have experienced, including some decisions related to Alibaba's fate, including the subsequent thoughts and struggles, I would like to share with you. You may be interested. This is indeed something I have never mentioned outside.
Several "breaking and reunion" that determines Alibaba's fate
1. The most wise "point": Separate Taobao and Alipay
I came to Alibaba in August 2007. Alibaba was already quite famous at that time. It cannot be said that it is very famous. It should be said that it is quite famous. Taobao was already quite big at that time. I remember when I went there, Taobao had a GMV of more than 40 billion that year, which was a small number compared to now, but the absolute number was not small, and it had already formed many fans, one of which was my wife. They interviewed me two days ago and I said I went to Alibaba because my wife is a fan of Taobao. Usually Shanghai people are not willing to leave Shanghai. There must be a special reason for Shanghai people to leave Shanghai. I asked seriously at the time, Are you sure, can I really go to Hangzhou? The answer I got was quite interesting. It should be a trend and a trend, including getting along with Joe and Mr. Ma. They had a smooth chat, so I went there.
When I arrived, Taobao had already been tens of billions, and soon it was 100 billion in the second year, and then it was out of control and it came up year by year. After more than nine years in Alibaba, many people think that it was very important at that time, and it seemed more important afterwards, or it was very heart-wrenching at that time, but it seemed very important afterwards. One of them happened not long after I went there. Although I did not experience it personally, I think it was a very wise decision that may have determined Alibaba’s fate today. This decision was in the early days, separating Taobao and Alipay. I think this matter laid the foundation for today's Alibaba. Today's Ants started with the original Alipay.
At that time, there was a saying, we could say that there was no Alipay without Taobao. Alipay was created to solve the problem of Taobao. You have to do online transactions and finally find that payment is a must for transactions, otherwise there would be no transactions. Second, in order to solve the mutual credit problem between buyers and sellers, it is the mutual trust problem, because people can’t touch it online and things can’t be touched, so it’s difficult to build trust. By chance, I came up with something from Alipay. In the past, there was Escrow, which solved the problem of trusting the buyer first or trusting the seller first. There is an intermediate account in the middle. The person who buys the goods puts the money in. After the buyer gets the money, confirm it and give it to the seller, and clears the money and goods. This mechanism is.
Today, we are all Taobao users, and we also use Alipay. Today, this thing is a very common thing. It was indeed a problem to solve the problem of Taobao at that time. It was also because of this. Yesterday we were discussing with some teams. This year, we also acquired a well-known e-commerce platform in Southeast Asia. Until now, the COD ratio is still very high, but the cash on delivery ratio is still very high. They told me how good cash on delivery is. I said that cash on delivery itself is a problem, because cash on delivery is asymmetrical treatment for buyers and sellers, and it is an unequal transaction. Why should I give you the goods first? The return rate of cash on delivery is particularly high. Because there is no cost, after I got the goods, I returned it when I was not satisfied with it. It is very good to the buyer, but those who sell things are not equal.
It is not a transaction with symmetry of risk and return. We say that Alipay needs to enter and popularize this thing, and there is a business scenario to allow guaranteed transactions to rise in Southeast Asia. It is itself a solution to the problem of Taobao transactions. I said that its wise decision is. Soon, Teacher Ma and Joe and others at that time made a wise decision. This thing was born from Taobao, but it does not belong to Taobao. It can be a business scenario where payment is required at all levels of society. So I split Alipay. I can tell you what are the benefits of splitting this? The advantage is that it opens up a whole world. It itself produces another business because of one main scenario, and this business can eventually become an appendix that not only produces that business scenario, but also becomes a business with independent social value and market value.
This reflects the very important thing about Alibaba, that is, in the entire organizational structure, what we have to do every few years is to break and reunite. This "division" determines the fate of Alipay and the fate of the entire ant. Without this "division", it is at best a large department in Taobao, which solves the Taobao problem. It may be good, because Taobao is long and it is also long. But now, in the PC era, Alipay's entire share and third-party share have become equal to Taobao. Half of the flow comes from Taobao, and half of the flow comes from various business scenarios in the market that require payment. Even more so in the wireless era, all offline payments in the wireless era have become mobile wallet payments, bringing this scenario.
But I have heard of it on the other hand, but I want to say that this kind of "dividing" also comes with a price, the price is that you must maintain the synergistic relationship between the two major systems between business scenarios and payments. It turns out that together is a department, so if you separate, there are payment scenarios. Of course, you are very big, which is my most important scenario, but when it develops, the priority will be adjusted.
Yesterday, I was still chatting with Ant classmate, and they have been thinking a lot recently. Jing Xiandong sent me a message saying Xiaoyaozi, I have to have dinner with you every month. I said it was pretty good, but I said why? He said it was very simple. In fact, Alibaba Group is a well-known customer of Ant, and well-known customers always have to visit them regularly. In fact, we often get together. After saying this, after "dividing", it brings a large market scenario, but it also requires a lot of connections. "Score" is better than "no difference". The market opportunities it brings are definitely not visible in the original scenario. This may be a very classic example of "score" in the past many years.
We are also learning ourselves. In this process, it becomes very important to consider when we "divided" and when we "combined".
2. Why did you "stuck back to Taobao's uterus"?
I will immediately talk about an example of "combination", which is Ali's mother. Alibaba’s mother was born in 2006, and I had it before I went there. At that time, Alibaba’s mother put forward a grand slogan. Because of Alibaba, she started an Alibaba mother. Alibaba asked to make the world without any difficult business. Alibaba’s mother put forward a vision to make the world without any difficult advertisements. So I started a new business and went to do it. But after I went there, in 2007 and 2008, I found an independent advertising platform. Advertising depends on two things, one is advertiser and the other is media. You connect the two together, and you build an advertising market and advertising platform in the middle. Because Alibaba has a very platform complex, we always want to build a platform for whatever we do, and then connect all parties together.
If the advertiser is in the market and needs to make money by himself, then it is the time when the portal is at its peak and the game is at its peak. This media is not established. There is no media of its own. The top should look for advertisers and the bottom should look for media. Both ends are outside. If you do not provide core value in the middle, you will not have excess profits. Why don’t the media sell it yourself? By selling it through you, you are at most an agent, which is such a thing.
At that time, Taobao was developing rapidly. Suddenly one day, in Hangzhou West Lake International Building, our original office, I was the CFO of Taobao at that time. Jack Ma called us to his office. He took a long sword, which is a photo from the early days. He was holding a sword. He asked us a few of us first. He wanted to find helpers to "get" one person together, that is, Wu Ma (Wu Yongming), the founder of Ali Mama. What should I do? In his original words, I have to stuff Alibaba's mother back into Taobao's uterus, because I noticed a problem, both ends are outside, so I can't do this business, but what happened to Taobao? Taobao is developing. When Taobao developed to 2007 and 2008, after I went there, we began to vigorously develop P4P business.
At that time, we came into contact with paid search, and we tried to use paid search as a commercial service and a marketing service, and brought it to Taobao for our sellers. Here comes something wonderful. We suddenly realize a problem. Alibaba’s mother is looking for advertisers on one side and media on the other. Taobao advertisers are all there, and there are already many sellers, and all sellers are potential advertisers.
As for the media, we ourselves are the media. At that time, tens of millions of consumers came to Taobao every day. When I came to Alibaba, there were many jokes. One of the jokes at that time, I was the CFO of Shanda. I went to Alibaba. The first statement was that Taobao was going to be listed, but in fact Taobao was not listed, so B2B was listed. The second is that Zhang Yong went to Taobao to find a business model for Taobao. Because Taobao burned money, everyone knew about it at that time, and they were worried about how to survive this business. This business was not profitable, and it was free market, and it burned so much money every year, how could it make money.
But after I came here for a few months, I figured out one thing: when tens of millions of people come to a place a day, making money should be something that can be done. But how to do it? At that time, Jack Ma wanted to put Alibaba's mother back into Taobao's womb so that he could become the main body of Taobao's commercialization. At the same time, he also combined Alibaba's mother's mission of "making it difficult to do advertising in the world" with Alibaba's mission. In fact, the two are one. Isn't advertising just for business, and sell the business.
We have extended our business to enable you to do well in marketing and advertising, and to gain new customers. This is how it is still very effective until today. This is how our Alibaba Mama’s entire marketing platform comes from.
Finally we got this matter done, Alibaba's mother returned to Taobao, and Wu's mother still managed Alibaba's mother's business system. This is a very interesting example of "combination". When a business development is actually a business development of our Alibaba. Many times, the perspective of development was originally called the ecological perspective, but I personally prefer to use the word industrial chain.
It turns out that there are only two roles of buyer and seller on the same platform. In fact, it is nothing more than you having more roles. The seller himself is an advertiser, and the advertiser needs someone to serve him. As a platform, it was originally a trading platform, but later because there were more people, it became the potential of a media. The media had to play its commercial role, realize its value in advertisers, provide services to them, and thus realize their own value and bring such a combination. This is an interesting extension of an industrial chain. This is also my first experience at Alibaba. It is entirely because of the "combination" of the parties involved. After joining in, how can the intended chemical reaction occur? You can't go outside to find advertisers. Secondly, you don't have to develop any channel system. You do other people's channels, you develop your own channel system, and you are your own media.
The best thing about us is that our advertisers are all operating on the Internet. You don’t need an offline service team to knock on the door to serve him. Your online self-service service can solve most of the problems. For a long time, when the results are king, we insist on "merchant self-service" and can complete things on the platform by themselves. Why do we need a national ground promotion team and sell advertisements everywhere? This is not necessary. Merchants need it, they evaluate it themselves, and they obtain efficient services through this method. This is a major event that we have experienced in the entire development process.
3. Doing Tmall is to "advance into the Dabie Mountains" and there is no way out.
The first part I talked about is breaking and reunion. Of course, I have not experienced the first "dividing" in the game, I just read this "dividing". The thing I just said was in 2008. Then from 2011 to 2012, I was also a party involved. I experienced another bigger "dividend", that is, Taobao was divided, and Taobao was divided into three parts, namely Taobao, Tmall and Yitao at that time. What was the current situation at that time? Taobao is developing faster and faster, but we decided to do B2C around 2008. Of course, it was also a coincidence. I was inexplicably the opportunity to get in touch with this business from a CFO. It was due to fate. I never thought of it. It was also the beginning of the road of no return. Later, I was out of control and went to do business until today.
At that time, we developed Taobao mall business, which was B2C business. During this development process, we once had a meeting at Yongfu Temple. At that time, I felt that when Lao Ma said that, he had made up his mind and wanted to tear down Taobao. In fact, my understanding at that time was different from that later, because I was a person in the game, and I was the leader of one of the teams at that time, and I was the leader of Taobao Mall. It was a good thing for me and my team at that time to dismantle this thing. I will tell you later why Taobao can develop. There is a little secret here, which has not been discussed outside, and I will tell you later.
At that time, I felt that "segment" was a good thing for individuals and a good thing for teams, and there was more room for business development. But later I slowly understood the reason for this demolition, and I think there is a very interesting consideration here.
The first is a trend judgment, which means that B2C will develop more and more, and if you put a big lid on something with a strong development momentum, this development will be bound. This is the first consideration. This consideration explains why Taobao and Taobao Mall (Tmall) are separated.
There is another consideration, which I have never mentioned before. Later I figured out, which is what the development trend of B2C will develop, including what your own B2C Taobao Mall can develop, and that time is uncertain.
Why not sure? What is the future development trend of this market structure? Is it a market dominated by heroes, or can it occupy a very large share of the market like our C2C field? This problem was not clear at the time. Because we are also fighting hard and encountering many problems, we may not necessarily have a chance of winning, nor may we form the current pattern, which was not clear at the time.
Please pay attention to the third thing, Yitao. Yitao has not heard a lot today, so why can’t I hear it? Because Tmall is already everywhere, it can’t hear it very much, because there are only B2Cs in China, with Tmall accounting for 50-60%. Then JD.com, Suning has a few points left, and the No. 1 store is almost gone, just a few things. What is needed when a market is divided and there are multiple entrances? Need to search. If there are only one or two markets, there is no need to search, but they search in that market. The results achieved by Taobao will be searched first. What is it abroad? Foreign users develop the habit of searching on Google, then going to Ebay, Amazon, and Wal-Mart. This is a concept. In China, we search on Taobao. This is something that foreign friends have not figured out. We should tell them this truth. We are different from abroad. Google is the entrance to the Internet space abroad, but it is not the same in China.
Looking back at that time, I just mentioned, and I couldn't figure out what the trend would be like, because I was not 100% sure about my own home and didn't know how to go about this market. So let's start another shopping search called Yitao, and this thing was built on Alibaba's mother.
This search may not be fully used for Taobao. If your stuff is good, it will come out. If other people’s stuff is good, it will come out. In the end, you can’t figure out which position you can defend. We have always said that it is different whether you can defend the five kilometers in front of the moat, or the city gate.
Of course, after finishing, if these three things are separated, it will become the "three Taos" within Alibaba, Taobao, Taobao Mall, and Yitao, one becomes three. I work in Taobao Mall, Wu Yongming works in Yitao, and Sanfeng works in Taobao. Compared to Taobao, there are two small things. We have to find a metaphor for ourselves. So one day, Lao Ma told me that Wu Ma and I were the "Liu Deng Army" and Wu Ma was the "Northeast Field Army". When I heard this, I fell asleep. Everyone knew that the Northeast Field Army was strong and strong. What does Liu Deng Army mean? Either they ran to the finish line or they had no way to live. They kept running forward and leaped into the Dabie Mountains thousands of miles away. After we parted, I told the entire team that we were the "Liu Deng Army". Brothers, we either rushed forward or had no way out.
This is about the part where you jump into the Dabie Mountains for thousands of miles. After you come out, you can just run forward if you have no base. And you don’t know where the base is. When you occupy the place, it will be yours. If you can’t find the place, you will basically either be destroyed by yourself or be destroyed by the outside. That was 2011, and I would like to tell you that so many years have passed, and it is something I have been reflecting on. Everyone knows that in October 2011, the "October Siege" happened. I am the president of Taobao Mall and the male lead in "October Siege". It was me who caused this situation. What is "October Siege"? It is a platform upgrade, hoping to establish a very strict entry threshold. Taking advantage of the opportunity of renewal every year, it is the opportunity for merchants to renew contracts every year, and to raise the quality threshold, including the margin threshold, which has caused a rebound from a large number of small sellers.
How did Tmall come from later? After that matter calmed down, we began to learn from our mistakes and began to think that Taobao and B2C should be cut, and the brand should be cut, because the four words Taobao Mall are too long and Chinese people can't tell the difference, but it's Taobao anyway.
Suddenly one day, Lao Ma called me and he thought of a wonderful name. I said, "Tmall", I almost fainted and he began to convince me. Because he does have his aura in this regard, it is really unique. The reason I was convinced by him in the end was very simple. When you think of Amazon now, what do you think of the most is that river or the company? Most people think of that company, and of course that river is also very famous.
The brand itself is meaningless. The key is that you have two words Redefine, giving it new connotation. Moreover, because these two words are weird, it is easy to cause discussion, controversy, social attention, and easy to be remembered. We released the Tmall brand on January 11, 2012. At that time, I was quite "excellent". They said that we would find a day to release the Tmall brand. I said that we should find my birthday. On January 11, Tmall's naming day. The reason behind this is because in the future, we will do brand cutting.
In this change, I brought it back to the point that this is the only time I have ever encountered such a layout to hedge risks. In fact, I will tell you now that I often do such things. The stories I used to tell you as stories, but today this kind of thing keeps happening. Maybe especially when Alibaba is very big now, how to avoid systemic risks at this time sometimes requires risk hedging. In different modes, sometimes you don’t know which thing is right and which mode is right.
4. Strategy is made, and what others summarize has nothing to do with you.
I don’t know what courses are arranged by Lakeside for everyone, strategy courses, etc. I don’t know if there are any. My always-known viewpoint is a strategy. The strategy he told you today is basically the strategy after the game is completed and summarized. What you are doing now sounds like a lot of things are illogical, but when it becomes logic, when everyone thinks that this is a strategy, no one will have a share, and everyone knows that this thing should be done like this. There are many smart people in the world, and there are many hardworking people, and there are more smart and diligent people. What does it have to do with us? It must be that there is no way in the world, so in order to survive, we will make a way out first.
Why did Xiaoyaozi come from outside? I said Double 11 come from Double 11 to survive, and I thought about it for the sake of survival. Double 11 was the first time in 2009. At that time, when I was in a difficult situation, I tried it east and west. Then there was a Black Friday festival in the United States, so we also tried it. I didn’t think of it later, just to survive, so that everyone remembers that this was done by us. People are willing to come to us, and they can clearly distinguish Taobao Mall and Taobao. Just a little thing, and the things behind them are all step by step.
Looking back, in terms of strategy, we may often talk about a clear strategic plan. I am singing the opposite. The clear planning is what is said in the textbook, or for what has happened in the past, today, looking forward to today, it is difficult for strategy to be clearly planned. What should I rely on here? I think it depends on persistence and persistence. The general trend must be correct. I often share my own experience with the team. I often say this: In terms of tactics, the distance between two points is the shortest. This is the principle of mathematics. In terms of tactics, in terms of mathematics, in terms of strategy, the distance between two points is always the longest. When you find that this strategy has progressed, you need to adjust. You were walking in this direction. I thought it was about to reach the end, but as you did it, you realized that it was wrong and you had to adjust. You are taking this path.
But what are you most afraid of here? The most fear of going back, some things are victory. My frequent catchphrase, especially new businesses, is faith and persistence. Do you believe in this matter or not? Secondly, are you willing to persist for this matter? I think this may be a result. When we easily summarize the results of a thing, and make its regulations aligned, structured, and logicalized, and become a strategic deduction, the process of its occurrence is because of faith and persistence. This is my own feeling. I don’t know what everyone thinks. I think it is because of faith and persistence. We believe in this matter, and I am willing to give it. Maybe I can't bear it in the end, so I will take it over again, overcome one hurdle, and pass the next one. That's it.
But the general direction should be "correct". Should we follow the trend or go against the trend, follow the trend, carry it, and the more we carry it, the easier it will be. If we do it against the social trend, we will be more and more tired. If we do it against the changes in consumption habits and business changes, we will be more and more tired. On this basis, it may be based on regular checklists, but if you follow the strategic textbook every day, you can't make anything. This is what I have experienced myself. This is what I want to share with you. I have experienced the important "dividing and combining" of Alibaba in the entire breaking and reunion.
Alibaba's "borrow chickens to lay eggs" and "chicken hatch ducks"
1. Any business can be redefined
I will change my perspective, whether it is borrowing flowers to offer Buddha or blooming inside the wall outside the wall, an example I mentioned is P4P. After acquiring Yahoo China in 2005, Yahoo was still at its peak at that time. Because Yahoo was searching at that time, although Google had already risen, Yahoo was still relatively strong at that time, so we came into contact with this thing.
P4P was first used in Yahoo China. By chance, we can see this thing. These production factors are all on Taobao. The advertising materials are products, and merchants do not need to spend extra effort on this advertising material. They are a product, the advertiser is a merchant, and the media is Taobao. To measure whether its effectiveness is good, it means whether it brings business to the merchant. There are two things to say about it. One is spot business, because this advertisement brings immediate sales, and the other is forward business, because this advertisement brings truly valuable customers.
We combined these two things, and this is from the original thing. We originally bought 1, and then as we did it, we found that 1 was not done well, so we created a 2. This is how many times this happened in our history. You bought a chicken and stewed a duck. This is the first time.
Another time in the past few years, the chicken is not turned into a duck, but the chicken has produced a few quails. What is it? UCweb, when we bought UCweb, I wonder if Joe had any of the strategic investments that influenced Alibaba. This is indeed a very important decision point, because our acquisition of UCweb and our acquisition of Gaode have formed a basic service matrix in the era of wireless Internet. This is very important for Alibaba, and further laid the foundation for everyone to see whether Alibaba is an e-commerce company or a data company today. In fact, since 2008 and 2009, we have positioned ourselves as the number one platform for data sharing. I think the professor will definitely talk about this.
In this process, just saying that you have changed yourself does not count, have the services you provide changed, and have the value you provide to your customers changed? Today, because of UC and Gaode, we have entered a brand new space in the expansion of the wireless Internet territory. What is chicken and quail? On the first day, this is a browser. In fact, everyone knows that the life of the browser is very sad. After UC entered the Alibaba family, we started to do two things, one is to build our own wireless search.
In this, if you use a browser, if you don’t have this thing, you can’t practice searching or raise it. If you don’t have a scene, it’s hard for you to be so big in Baidu and when there is Google abroad, you can do a search again. This is very difficult. The reason why we call this quail, not a duck.
Another quail is the information flow. You can see that with the mixed information flow from pictures and text to today's short videos, it has now become a carrier of consumption content for Internet users and a Kill time tool. We buy a chicken. This chicken itself has certain value, but whether we can use this chicken to hatch other things and create two things that are not chickens, we will do information flow and search, which is also something we often think about.
The problem we have been talking about is that any business can be redefined. Maybe the first day we are doing this business, called this platform, it is easy for our team to go all the way to this. Perhaps the more grassroots team is, the problem I consider is what I just said, I must run all the way to the black and try my best to get the results, but sometimes I still have to jump out of this situation and see if there is a possibility of this matter being redefined. The spirit of hard work requires, but courage alone is not enough. Behind faith and persistence is wisdom, that is, faith and persistence supported by wisdom, this thing can be accomplished, otherwise it is hard to fight for life. This is the thought behind us.
2. DingTalk is made by Lai Communication, the core is customer value
What I just said is that UC is that this chicken lives well, and a few other quails came out. The other one is that the chickens are not raised, so we have raised a duck. There is another classic example in the past one or two years, namely La Communication and DingTalk. We originally wanted to raise a La Communication. My point of view is that what new customer value does your thing provide compared to others is that customers must use it, especially when they are already huge, if you have any differentiated customer value, you can enter this market. This is also a core word for managing business, which is customer value. The first definition is who your customer is. Today, on a platform like Alibaba, you actually ask, is the first word still necessary? The customer is so big, and I say that the bigger the customer, the more you have to ask, why? It is easy to be big but not focused. Alibaba is big, but each business in Alibaba must focus on a specific customer base. Only by combining it can we say that we have served 450 million and 500 million users. If each small business says that I serve 450 million and 500 million customers, it will definitely not be done well.
Whether you are a 2C or 2B business, this strategy is completely different. What kind of consumer groups are consumers? It cannot be said that everyone is your consumers. This violates the basic logic of all business development, which is that you must define a clear consumer group and provide value to consumers.
Why did DingTalk come later? It was the small group of students who had faith and courage and were willing to persist in it. They felt that they could not make things out on this, and it would be useless to do it anymore. They could not make things out, because once this thing is finalized, the user's product will only have a big chance, and there will be no second chance, and it will not be possible to suddenly upgrade and change the version and become a completely different thing.
Finally, we returned to what the core user value is. In Dingding, this small team, which turned out to be a small group of people in the team, they thought that this matter could not be done, and they had to restart the stove and do another one, because the team had persistence and faith, and they grasped some user value, so they developed well today. Regarding this product, the most important sentence I give to Wuzhao’s team is to make it simple. Many times I always want to add things, but I feel satisfied after adding them. In fact, sometimes I become more and more dissatisfied. I need to make tool products simple, simplify them, and abstract user needs, and truly make a tool platform.
3. When a duck hatched from a chicken coop, you should take care of it. This is the agility of the strategy.
For Alibaba, I have experienced several major decisions about Alibaba. One is the breakup and reunion. We often have to divide and reunion once in a few years. The second is to borrow chickens to lay eggs and use chickens to hatch ducks, which reflects some of our own agility in the entire strategy. Because many innovations are a combination of top-down and bottom-up. If we are in today's Internet era, we believe that relying on bottom-up innovation is not enough. Many creativity is in the folk and below. How can we give the team some space so that some things can emerge? At the same time, when it emerges, it can be discovered in time and can protect this thing. It turns out that raising a duck in a chicken coop is good, even a little duck, which means that the species is evolving and the species is mutating.
Strategic thinking and organizational culture
1. CEOs should think more about "long-term things" and "unintentional things"
Of course, from a more macro perspective, for Alibaba, we think more about the development of the entire business, from the perspective of the industrial chain, and our thinking is more about five years, ten years or even longer. This is also the reason why we have been firmly investing and building in the cloud since 2009. To put it bluntly, the cloud in 2009 is completely different from today's cloud, and even the definition is two definitions. But this core is to make a judgment on the general trend of the future, and ultimately, it is willing to make some investments in this. In the middle, what Alibaba has done so far is that our entire business, our industrial business, from B to C, then to the cloud at the bottom, to entertainment, and then to overseas. We hope to form a sector rotation effect at different time points on the same time axis. This is also very important, and I also pay close attention to this issue.
对于一个大的企业，像阿里来讲，我们必须承认一件事情，所谓花无百日红，没有一个业务可以一直红的，没有一个业务可以都像正午十二点的阳光一样，正当头上，产品都有生命周期，都有高峰和低谷。那么作为像阿里这样的大的公司来讲，我们怎么样避免集体性的高峰或者集体性的低谷，当然集体性的高峰大家都很开心，别忘了集体性的高峰就是意味着集体性的低谷，在一个共振的轴上面，你很容易发生这样的事情。我们的整个布局是轮动的，Joe在有一次我们对于海外资本市场业绩发布会上讲过一句话，我觉得还是挺有意思的。
他说we work for now，we invest for tomorrow，we incubate for future，我们为今天工作，为未来投资，最后一句比较特别的，我们为未来孵化一些东西。为未来有一些冒出来的小芽，也许十个二十个芽里面，有一个芽发了，那就大发了，完全变成一个新的未来的主力业务，这是对于阿里巴巴这样的公司，考虑比较多的视角，包括下面那么多的业务，大文娱、云、高德、菜鸟，包括电商，电商里面还分很多种类，B2B、2C，2C里面还分B2C、B2C，B2C还分国内、进出口，还分外国的本地市场，事情是做不完的，更重要的是你要抓住这个业务的主线，为未来做投资甚至做孵化。第二还是要果断做取舍。
尽管所有的机会都看上去很漂亮，但是今天什么东西不可为，对我们今天的阿里来讲显得更加重要。今天我们第一不缺名，品牌也很响，我们有卓越的Leader马云。我们业务也算还不错，我们也不缺钱，听上去啥都能干，但是有什么事情不能干的，这是我们今天站在我这个层面考虑比较多的问题，什么事情不可为的。大公司要往小做，小公司要有大的格局，我觉得非常重要，这是我们一直这么多年发展下来，我们的一个心得。
2、天马行空、脚踏实地；中学为体、西学为用
别人问我说阿里巴巴是一家什么公司，我站在我的视角，我有两句话，我心里的阿里巴巴，就是我所经历的，我有体感的阿里巴巴，用两句话总结，阿里巴巴第一句话是天马行空的公司，也是脚踏实地的公司，这是缺一不可的。我们有非常大的愿景，包括我们也有很多奇思妙想，有很多的想法，甚至有很多马云的想法，很古灵精怪的想法，为什么能够发展到今天，能够走下去，最重要很多的想法变成了现实，不然想得再多，也没有人信，必须变成现实，这是整个战略和执行上的两句话。
第二个从文化上来讲，阿里巴巴是一家中学为体、西学为用的公司，这是我自己的体感。我们在文化上，我们在整个组织上，其实后面贯穿的，包括大家都知道，我们阿里巴巴喜欢太极，其实这里面有中国的文化思想在里面，包括阴阳的平衡，整个这里面体现了我们对于这个东西，我们的一些向往，不能说我们完全有这个，我们是一种向往。第二个，我们在整个管理上，特别是我们的整个管理机制设计上按照现代企业管理制度来管理的，一定是这样的，最后才能变成一个中西合璧的整体。
3、阿里喜欢两类人：不安分、能成事
我跟HR一直聊的话题，到底招什么样的人，我说招两种人，第一个是招体制内的不安分者，招跨国公司的叛逆者，一种是体系内的国营企业或者说体系内不安分的人，在这里日子过得很好，但老想干点啥，到我们这儿来吧。第二个是招跨国公司的叛逆者，跨国公司里面，我看的核心问题，有些人可能有很漂亮的履历，我最关心这个人置于这个体系，是他创造了这个体系，还是这个体系成就了这个人。特别在跨国公司里，很多人就像螺丝钉一样，他可能在一个体系里面转的，他在这里面坐在这个位置，不管他的位置多大，可能是总经理，多大的帽子，都很好，但是如果是你把中国业务从零打出来的，或者你去的时候，这个东西本来没有，建了这个体系，这是本质的不同，是人造就了事情，还是事情造就了人，这是我们在招聘当中，包括我们现在在内部员工的晋升上面，我们经常问这个问题，特别是高阶员工的晋升。
这两年阿里业务比较好的时候，很多问题会被掩盖，看去这个人业绩都不错，但是我说这个到底是这个人造就了这个业务还是这个业务造就了这个人，这些问题都是我们现在考虑比较多的。我想对不同的企业来讲，大家都有各种借鉴，最终我们还是需要找的是因人成事这样的人，因为这个人，Make things different，因为人，这个事情不一样。
我们今天说非凡人以平凡心做非凡事，因为今天事实上我们承担的责任，我们做的事情，真的需要有一个非凡的思考力，有非凡的格局，有非常的勇气才能做一些事情，但是反过来如果你没有对客户的敬畏之心，你不是用一个平凡心，不是谦卑之心、服务之心，很难做好这个事情。这里面背后反映的是什么？反映在一个企业，不同阶段对于人的要求是不一样的，对于人的整个引导和培养的角度是需要去辩证的发展，今天就讲讲阿里的老故事，把一些我自己体会到的剧烈的变化分享给大家。
提问环节：
1、谈入股银泰：对“新零售”阿里是严肃的，绝不是搞一个时髦概念
学员：问一下银泰入股后面的是怎么考虑的？
张勇：我们去年提出五个新，引起大家很多的反响，新零售上面大家有很多的讨论，阿里巴巴对于新零售是非常认真的去构想它和实践它的，我们绝对不是说一个概念，我们绝对不是说一个虚无缥渺的东西。
过去十几年电子商务的发展，把虚拟世界和实体世界分割开来看，是一个阶段性的产物。越往后走，虚拟世界和实体世界就是一个世界，电子商务和实体商业是一个世界。在我看来，电子商务是最真实的经济，不是虚拟的经济，它是反映整个实体经济的脉搏。而在今天整个零售业态的发展，我用的关键词叫“重构”，我们正好今天可以讨论，我的观点很简单，我希望我们的团队能够不仅有原来做电子商务的力量和经验，同时能够用这样互联网的技术和思想去帮助实体商业的生产要素进行重构，赋予它互联网的能力。实体商业的生产要素就是人、货、场，网上也是人、货、场，两者没有本质区别。
今天中国实体商业碰到的问题，典型是供给不能满足需求快速增长和变化的问题，今天的中国实体商业碰到的问题一定是消费者的需求在发展，年轻一代的消费者正在变成消费的主力军，但是中国的百货行业本质上还是赚商业地产的级差地租和超额利润。
然而最终消费者的需求跟装修没有关系，跟地段其实没有本质关系，最多是便利性的关系，但是这个标地是什么，对象是什么，这个上面不升级。我们认为实体商业面临一个大改革、大改造的机遇和挑战，我们两年前参与到银泰，当然这个私有化刚刚发起，并没有完全，还在过程当中，市场反响到目前还是非常正面的，最终我们希望能够把银泰打造成为我们在新零售的尝试，真正以互联网要素重构人、货、场的试点。
无论是银泰还是三江都是这么考虑。刚才银泰的思考，整个百货业态的重构，百货商业的重构，包括Shopping mall业态的重构，而三江后面的思考，我们基于本地化的、及时性的，以食品生鲜为代表的消费对象、消费类别的电子商务，线上线下一体的电子商务，我们认为是一个巨大的场景。
It turns out that the practice of e-commerce is the Air Force, which goes from above to downward. Its penetration of the ground is insufficient. What is rigid demand today and what is rigid consumption? It’s just a thing, the food you eat with your mouth and the food you eat is rigid consumption. However, today, more and more Chinese people are having higher and higher requirements for food, higher and higher requirements for safety, and higher quality requirements. How do you provide such products? At the same time, they are all Internet population. The era of squeezing supermarket shuttle buses for eight yuan will definitely pass.
Today, as younger people become more and more popular in consumer groups, we believe that in the future, what users really want is quality products, safe products, and such services. People regard food as the most important thing, and they cannot escape three meals a day. E-commerce is so big, but how much does it have to do with us? Everyone has to eat breakfast. How much does breakfast have to do with us? There is no relationship yet, but we think that relationships can be made. This relationship is not about relationships for us, but about us that can generate value in it and provide the entire service. Because of the Internet problem, the supply chain can be shortened and demand can be aggregated in advance.
For example, in an office building, there are so many young colleagues who have to have breakfast in the morning. Why can’t breakfast be booked in advance? Why can’t it be aggregated by geographical location and latitude after booking? Why don’t the power of the central kitchen be efficiently processed? Everyone’s breakfast is hot, the quality is up to standard, and the price is appropriate. This is the life that everyone yearns for. Everyone has to worry about what fried dough sticks are fried. This is our sorrow. Back to the previous one, these two projects are very serious about the word new retail within Alibaba. We definitely don’t just want to cause some discussion and everyone thinks it is very fashionable. Now we are discussing new retail, but what exactly is and what is to be done. Going back to the tactical and strategic issues I mentioned earlier, all strategic ideas are the most important thing to look at practice and make them. Of course, we already have a lot of specific ideas and practices. We hope to reflect them in physical facilities such as Intime and Sanjiang.
2. Talking about time management: I only have one requirement for the secretary: I cannot arrange time for me
Student: What is actually more precious than Jack Ma’s time is that it is busier. Alibaba is too big today, but you emphasize flat management. How do you allocate your own personal time and how can you ensure that you can manage so many things in the organization?
Zhang Yong: Time is a big problem. I have a principle. I have to master my time. After I have DingTalk communication tools, I have greatly squeezed out a lot of fragments of time. Just like the question just now, our current management has moved from tree management to mesh management. It turned out that mesh management was impossible, but today it became possible. I can communicate with any of Alibaba's 50,000 employees in this moment, and I can communicate with him easily within 30 seconds. There is no problem. This organization can have a mesh structure.
It turns out that we have a classic theory in Alibaba. One manager leads seven people, layer by layer. I have talked a lot in Alibaba in the past two years. This is a classic idea in the PC era. It is actually a tree-like structure. There is a premise here, why one person manages seven people? Because if it is too much, it is not good to manage, why not manage it well, because its boundaries cannot be too wide, and too wide cannot be covered. Today, we cannot say that it becomes infinite. This is not objective, but it can definitely be expanded than seven people. It has the opportunity to allow this organization to use an effective information communication tool and office tool to make the entire communication more effective through the management of a network structure. This can happen.
Of course, despite this, I still say that time management is my most important issue. Being my secretary is also very painful. They will have the need for snowflakes. I give them the most important principle. I am quite good to the secretary and will not curse people casually. But I said that there is one thing that needs to be cursed and other things are acceptable, that is, don’t arrange time for me. You can’t arrange my time. The first one will not be the most important. The person who comes in the last minute may have to be the person you want to meet in the last minute. You cannot do something step by step. It must be dynamic. Of course, it also requires some tacit understanding. It is also valuable to slowly cultivate this tacit understanding.
In this process, time management is very important, and in this process, the next level of leader can truly take on greater responsibilities, because it is not possible to rely on one person. You must let young people come up layer by layer and shoulder greater responsibilities. I use a flexible management method because the maturity of each business manager below is different. Some of them have to retreat a little, and some of them have to move forward a little. Generally, there are several commanders under the commander-in-chief and division commanders under the commander, but the reality is very skinny. Sometimes, this commander does not have one brigade commander. Of course, first of all, you have to invest in finding that commander, but before you find the commander, you must do the work of the commander, otherwise you will be unlucky. Or you send another army to combine the commander with the commander, and you cannot let it go. I mean, someone must come to Take ownership, or it is the area where three things are not in charge.
3. Talking about the money-burning model: it is not valid to exchange market fees for GMV
Student: How to evaluate the opportunities and challenges of group buying websites? I heard you have solved the problems of eating in the store and eating takeaway. Then the next step is to "cook at home and eat by yourself", which is directly related to fresh food shopping, and it is closest to you.
Zhang Yong: We have always had food, which is a very important e-commerce category. What I mean is eating related to three meals a day, not snacks, but food related to three meals a day, including wine. With the development of this aspect, the penetration rate of e-commerce in it is still very low. On the other hand, the entire offline business format has brought great problems in the quality and safety mentioned earlier, and there is a huge opportunity here. First of all, users need good food, and users need safe food. Secondly, in terms of practice, I think it is closely related to localization and timeliness, and lacks localization and timeliness, because eating this thing must be localized, because China is too big, and what Guangdong people eat is completely different from what Northeast people eat. Timeliness is also very important. You occasionally buy a ham and say you buy a ham during the New Year’s goods festival. You will get it in a few days. Maybe it’s OK. I said we will have a meeting here today. Everyone will go home, and they are in Hangzhou. When they go home, they will make dinner. They may listen and slide their phones on the same phone to order two dishes. There are timely foods and processed foods when they go back.
I think there will be a great prospect for processing, because today's younger generation, I joked with someone that day and gave you a chicken, but you didn't know what to do. The processing in this kind of processing is still fun. Now this industry is very segmented and very complex.
Second, I think many group buying websites are still very amazing companies, with very strong execution capabilities. In the O2O field, it has been very difficult for so many years to work hard and can survive to this day. But the core here is still to establish the core value of users. After the storm today, takeaways began to charge shipping fees, and movie tickets were less than 9.9 yuan. To put it bluntly, everything is like this and will return to the original nature of business. Anyway, I have a lot of weird talks in Alibaba. I don’t say much outside. I have this saying: Measure any business, and the business of exchanging market fees for GMV is not established. If you invest in the market and earn GMV, then the GMV will be valuated. This thing is not incomprehensible, and Alibaba doesn’t need to do it like this. After the storm has calmed down, many things will be revealed, which is my point of view.
4. Talking about overseas investment: Many of Alibaba's layouts are playing Go instead of chess
Student: Alibaba has invested a lot in internationalization overseas. For example, its actions in India must be based on business vision. There are also some, such as Alibaba’s acquisition of the South China Morning Post and doing some young people’s entrepreneurship in Taiwan and Hong Kong. Is this based on business vision or the need for China’s soft power?
Zhang Yong: Alibaba’s scale and influence today cannot only use business discussions to discuss many such behaviors, including the South China Morning Post, some public welfare projects we have done, and some foreign layouts. In fact, it is more about the need to establish a macro environment. It is actually a pity that media such as the South China Morning Post are a very excellent media, and this region is actually an influential English media, but its overall operation method is actually very traditional, and all media are facing this problem today. How can we use some Internet methods to help it and keep it independent influence today? There are many things to do.
This returns to the word ecology, which is a broad ecological layout. For Alibaba, many things we may do are like playing Go, not playing chess. Many of the things we do, in the layout stage, we don’t understand many pieces very clearly. If we connect several pieces, we may put a piece on this corner and a piece on that corner. Of course, not every chess is a good chess, and we can play bad chess. We can finally connect several pieces of layout into one piece. Maybe the first day of thinking is like this, but the second day of thinking is like that, because the plan is not as fast as the change.
5. Talking about CFO as CEO: In essence, I am a not very at ease, and Alibaba let me find my “true self”
Student: In the morning, I asked Mr. Cao of Sina. Teacher Ma teased him and said that the worst thing in the world is that the CFO is the CEO. When Teacher Ma said this, were you in office as the CEO? People from accounting still have particularly great advantages in starting a business in China. What do you think?
Zhang Yong: When Jack Ma said this, I had not yet become Alibaba CEO.
I think in essence, from the perspective of thinking about it myself, I am actually a person who is not very at ease, or from the perspective of being a CFO, I am not a truly suitable person as a CFO, but by accident, Alibaba gave me a chance to find the true self or whatever.
6. Talking about the criteria for selecting people: vision, pattern, and mind are very important
Student: Alibaba is a very large group. There are more than a dozen or twenty people below you who report to you. When you choose these people, what kind of judgments are you based on? In addition to values, what similarities are there in terms of ability or points of importance?
Zhang Yong: The first is the pattern, vision, pattern, and mind. I think many of my colleagues in this regard, in terms of skills, actually, I think they already have very high skills. There is no need to discuss more about skills, but more about vision, pattern, and mind. My D is either C O or business president, the president of a large business group. At this level, the most important thing is vision, pattern and mind. I hold a whole management meeting every month. My catchphrase, our team still has to talk about Team, this discussion. At this meeting, we discuss many macro and strategic issues. At this time, the discussion is not that Alibaba Cloud people discuss the issues from the perspective of Alibaba Cloud, but that everyone discusses the issues from the perspective of the entire group, but that the division of labor is different and they assume different responsibilities.
In terms of division of labor, we look at this division of labor. At the right time, people with corresponding characteristics do the right business. This is very important. Values are the premise, and skills are also the premise at this level. The most important thing is vision, mind and pattern, which determines the entire group. Because everyone's business is as few as a few thousand people, and as many as tens of thousands. Their entire judgment, their desire for the team's talents, their appeal to talents, and their forward-looking thinking about the entire business directly determine the future of the group, which is the most critical.
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